Who is Making War on the West? Anthony Rubin on DarkHorse

Oct 20

Host: Dr. Bret Weinstein
Guest: Anthony Rubin
Podcast: DarkHorse Podcast
Episode: The Inside Rail
Published: October 20th, 2026
Runtime: 1:30:39
Transcript source: SRTX transcript file, corrected

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Summary

Bret Weinstein speaks with Anthony Rubin on the subject of mass migration into Europe and the United States: who facilitates it, who profits from it, and why the mainstream press has left two brothers with cameras to document it.

Rubin describes following the Atlantic, or West African, migration route for Replacing Europe, the documentary he made with his brother Joshua: from Mauritania to the Canary Islands, then mainland Spain, France and the United Kingdom. He names the United Nations, and specifically UNHCR and the International Organization for Migration (IOM), as the main facilitator of migration in both the Americas and Europe, alongside NGOs including HIAS, the Red Cross and the Norwegian Refugee Council. He points to the UN's 2030 Agenda and to an IOM document, Migration and the 2030 Agenda, which he says describes migrants as "agents of development." He describes volunteers in Calais whose self-sacrifice he calls "suicidal empathy," and recounts what an IOM worker on the Canary Island of El Hierro told him off camera: that he reports the groups that cheat migrants, not the groups that smuggle them. Weinstein argues that what Rubin documented is "unambiguously an invasion," one that is hard to name only because it meets no resistance, and connects it to lineage selection, his model of how one population displaces another.

The second half turns to the United States. Rubin argues that the Trump administration betrayed its supporters on mass deportations, and that the window to carry them out is closing; he cites his 2024 door-to-door search for unaccompanied migrant children, in which he says more than 90 percent of the homes he visited had a newborn. The two discuss whether the fear of being called racist keeps people from naming what is happening. Rubin says there is a racial, cultural and religious component; Weinstein argues that the West is the only alternative to populations displacing one another, and that an attack on white people is itself racism. They discuss the Asch conformity and Milgram experiments, why academics have stayed silent, which Weinstein attributes to cowardice rather than political leaning, and Yuri Bezmenov's account of ideological subversion. Rubin closes by asking viewers to be the person in the Asch experiment who breaks from the crowd.

About the Host

Bret Weinstein is an evolutionary biologist and host of the DarkHorse Podcast, which examines science, institutions, politics, culture, and the challenges facing Western civilization. The Inside Rail is his long-form interview series. In this episode he describes himself as the originator of a model called lineage selection, and recalls traveling with his son and Michael Yon to a migrant camp in the Darién Gap.

About the Guest

Anthony Rubin is half of the Muckraker team, with his brother Joshua Rubin. Bret Weinstein describes their work in this episode as "guerrilla journalism." Rubin says that he and his brother are, as far as he is aware, the first and only people to have followed the entire migration route from South America to the US border, and now from Africa into Europe. On the Americas route, he says, the brothers crossed the Darién Gap and were kidnapped at gunpoint by the Gulf Cartel at the end of the journey. In the summer of 2024 he spent about three months knocking on doors in search of unaccompanied migrant children. Their most recent documentary is Replacing Europe.

Find Muckraker on X at @realmuckraker and watch Replacing Europe on YouTube.

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Mentioned in This Episode

Episode Chapters

00:00:00 From Mauritania to the English Channel
00:02:00 Three Routes Into Europe
00:03:47 Sponsor: Caraway
00:05:08 Sponsor: Ridge
00:06:19 Migration or Invasion?
00:08:15 Mauritania: Nothing to Lose
00:10:11 The UN at the Top
00:11:46 Rape Kits for the Darién Gap
00:14:13 Migration as an Inherent Good
00:15:50 Agenda 2030 & "Agents of Development"
00:17:22 Who Profits When the Flow Stops?
00:20:58 Suicidal Empathy in Calais
00:22:56 Foot Soldiers vs. Architects
00:25:09 Too Big to Shut Down?
00:27:47 The End of the Nation-State
00:28:44 Sponsor: CrowdHealth
00:29:57 Ukraine, Iran, and Manufactured Chaos
00:33:03 Theater on the French Coast
00:34:58 When to Call It an Invasion
00:37:46 Lineage Selection
00:39:58 Why Isn't the Press Covering This?
00:41:12 Cartels vs. Governments
00:44:13 No Excuses for the Press
00:45:50 Invasion Meets Anti-Natalism
00:46:41 Smoky Room or Societal Decay?
00:50:32 The IOM Worker on El Hierro
00:53:21 Everyone Claims to Be From Mali
00:54:04 The Smugglers He Didn't Report
00:57:49 Did Trump Abandon Mass Deportations?
01:00:37 Knocking on Doors for Missing Minors
01:03:46 Same Play, Same Players
01:05:55 Too Afraid to Be Called Racist?
01:09:33 The West Is the Only Alternative
01:12:34 Racism Against White People
01:13:12 Fighting-Age Men by the Numbers
01:15:41 The Cowardice of the Academy
01:17:45 The Asch Conformity Experiment
01:20:24 Milgram and the Power of One Dissenter
01:21:41 Evolutionary Biology's Blind Spot
01:22:45 Yuri Bezmenov and Ideological Subversion
01:25:17 Why Isn't It Already Obvious?
01:27:50 Skin in the Game
01:28:34 Be the One Who Breaks Ranks
01:29:48 Where to Find Muckraker

Key Questions Answered in This Episode

What migration route did Anthony Rubin follow in the documentary Replacing Europe?

Anthony Rubin says the documentary follows the Atlantic, or West African, route, which he describes as the most dangerous way into Europe and also a commonly used one. At 00:02:00 he says, "in the documentary, we frame it as starting from the country of Mauritania," moving on to the Canary Islands, mainland Spain, France and the United Kingdom. In practice, he says, the brothers flew into the Canary Islands first and went to Mauritania afterward. He contrasts it with the Mediterranean route through Italy and the overland route through Turkey and Greece. At 00:03:40: "So we followed the Atlantic route and, um, yeah, one of three potential routes we could have followed."

Who does Anthony Rubin say is behind mass migration into Europe and the United States?

Rubin first says much of the movement is organic, driven by poverty and by phones that show people what Western life is like. But at 00:10:17 he names "the King daddy above them all" as "the United Nations," specifically UNHCR and the International Organization for Migration (IOM), which he says operate in both the Americas and Europe. He also names HIAS, the Red Cross and the Norwegian Refugee Council. Bret Weinstein, describing the IOM office in Panama's Canal Zone overlooking the Bridge of the Americas, concludes at 00:11:28: "the UN is causal here."

What does the UN's Migration and the 2030 Agenda say about migrants, according to Anthony Rubin?

Rubin describes the UN's 2030 Agenda, which he says the US joined in 2015 under Obama, this way at 00:16:21: "It is essentially a blueprint for world socialism." He then points to a derivative document, Migration and the 2030 Agenda, and at 00:17:03 says it calls migrants "quote unquote agents of development and that the goal of migration in the 2030 Agenda is not to stop but to facilitate migration of people." Bret Weinstein argues at 00:14:54 that the organizations involved see "migration as an inherent good."

What is "suicidal empathy," and where did Anthony Rubin see it?

Rubin uses Gad Saad's phrase to describe volunteers at a warehouse shared by leftist groups in Calais, France, whose purpose, he says, is to help migrants living in forest camps and help them cross the English Channel. He says 30 to 40 volunteers show up each day, including 10 to 20 cooks who make soup for the camps. At 00:22:19 he relays what the volunteers told him: "We're only allowed to touch the soup once it's a day or two old and no longer suitable for the migrants." At 00:22:39 he calls it "suicidal empathy," crediting the phrase to Gad Saad.

Why does Bret Weinstein call mass migration into Europe an invasion?

At 00:33:14 Weinstein says, "I think it is unambiguously an invasion and what's confusing the reason that we can't apply that term to it is that an invasion implies resistance that we don't see." He points to Rubin's footage of smuggling boats leaving the northern French coast with no police present, and to migrants housed in hotels in Britain and given "300 pounds a month to spend as they want" (00:34:39). Rubin agrees, saying he sometimes holds back the word depending on his audience, and at 00:35:55: "it is absolutely an invasion."

What is lineage selection, and how does Bret Weinstein apply it to migration?

At 00:37:46 Weinstein says, "I am the originator of a model called lineage selection," which, he explains, "posits that for all creatures that there is an evolutionary drive to displace competitors where possible." In a species with many subpopulations, he says, one population can displace another, and at 00:38:20: "that is clearly what is going on in Europe and it was clearly what was going on during the Biden administration in the US." But he adds that the pattern does not follow directly from lineage selection, because, as he puts it at 00:39:01, "Europe is inflicting this on itself," which to him suggests someone is using it instrumentally.

What did the IOM worker on El Hierro tell Anthony Rubin?

Rubin says he found a man who described himself as the "only IOM worker on the entire Canary Island chain" (00:50:55) after a migrant boat arrived on El Hierro, and later recorded him on hidden camera. Off camera, by Rubin's account, the worker said his job was to interview arriving migrants so smuggling groups could be reported to authorities, then told him at 00:54:52, "I don't actually report the groups that do the smuggling because I only report the groups that rip off the migrants and take their money and never smuggle." Rubin, who did not record that exchange, says at 00:55:10, "I swear with all my credibility that those are the words that came out of that man's mouth." Bret Weinstein's reading at 00:55:36: "a criminal organization defending its racket against other criminal organizations."

What do the Asch and Milgram experiments have to do with speaking out about migration?

Rubin describes the Asch conformity experiment, in which a subject often goes along with a group's obviously wrong answer about which lines match, and says at 01:19:58 that "what tended to break" the pattern was even one confederate breaking from the crowd. Bret Weinstein adds the Milgram experiment, in which more subjects defied the experimenter once they saw someone else do it, and at 01:21:28 says, "maybe you and I are modeling this here, yes, there's a racial dynamic to this invasion, we are going to talk about it courageously you can too." Rubin closes the episode at 01:28:59 by urging viewers to be the one who "goes against the grain."

Main Topics

The Atlantic migration route from Mauritania through the Canary Islands, Spain and France to the United Kingdom
The role of the UN, UNHCR, the IOM and NGOs in facilitating migration in the Americas and Europe
The UN's 2030 Agenda and the IOM's Migration and the 2030 Agenda
The Darién Gap and the parallels between migration into Europe and through Central America
Who profits from migration, and what happens to the communities built around it when the flow stops
Volunteers in Calais and "suicidal empathy"
Whether mass migration should be called an invasion
Lineage selection and the displacement of one population by another
The risks of reporting on migration in Africa and Europe, and the absence of mainstream coverage
An IOM worker's account of asylum claims and smuggling groups
The Trump administration and mass deportations
Race, culture, religion and the fear of being called racist
The West as the alternative to populations displacing one another
Conformity, cowardice in academia, and the Asch and Milgram experiments
Yuri Bezmenov and ideological subversion

Search Keywords

Bret Weinstein, Anthony Rubin, Joshua Rubin, Muckraker, DarkHorse Podcast, Inside Rail, Replacing Europe, mass migration, illegal immigration, invasion, Atlantic route, West African migration route, Mediterranean route, Mauritania, Canary Islands, El Hierro, Spain, Calais, English Channel, France, United Kingdom, Darién Gap, Panama, Central America, United Nations, UNHCR, International Organization for Migration, IOM, HIAS, Red Cross, Norwegian Refugee Council, NGOs, 2030 Agenda, Migration and the 2030 Agenda, agents of development, suicidal empathy, Gad Saad, asylum claims, Mali, smuggling, lineage selection, evolutionary biology, displacement, anti-natalism, George Soros, Open Society Foundations, Trump administration, mass deportations, unaccompanied minors, Biden administration, Michael Yon, grooming gangs, Asch conformity experiment, Milgram experiment, Yuri Bezmenov, ideological subversion, Western civilization, The West

Transcript

This transcript was prepared from the episode's speaker-labeled SRTX caption file, corrected for names and spellings, and lightly consolidated into readable paragraphs. The source file begins at the episode's true 00:00:00 timecode, so no timestamp offset has been applied.

[00:00:00] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Hey folks, welcome to the DarkHorse Podcast, Inside Rail. I am delighted to be sitting this morning with Anthony Rubin, who is half of the muckraker.com team. The other half is his brother, Joshua Rubin, and they have been true to the name of their website, muckraker.com. They have been doing some, I don't know, I might call it guerrilla journalism. Their most recent documentary is available. You can find it on their website. You can also find it on X. It is fantastic and it documents their following of the migration route for illegal immigrants coming from Africa, uh, into Spain and up through Europe into the British Isles. So Anthony, welcome to DarkHorse.

[00:00:55] Anthony Rubin: Thank you for having me.

[00:00:57] Dr. Bret Weinstein: I'm glad to do it. And I'll just say right up top, I'm very impressed with the work that you've been doing, not only with respect to the migration, uh, into Europe, but also the work that you did on the migration that was coming through Central America into the United States, where I also did some work. Nothing as daring as you and your brother have been up to. But in any case, you're bringing, uh, to light patterns that are absolutely essential for the people who live in Europe and the United States to understand patterns that for some strange reason are largely not covered by the mainstream press. So before we get to anything else, thank you for your hard work, uh, to make these things apparent.

[00:01:48] Anthony Rubin: Well, thank you for recognizing it. I very much appreciate that.

[00:01:52] Dr. Bret Weinstein: All right. So let's talk about your most recent work. You started where in your following this route?

[00:02:00] Anthony Rubin: So in the documentary, we frame it as starting from the country of Mauritania. And we show you where, you know, kind of like the origin in West Africa. And then we take you to the Canary Islands and from there, mainland Spain, France, and the United Kingdom. Now, uh, I say that we show it that way in the documentary because in real life, the way we did it was we flew into the Canary Islands first, did a bit of reconnaissance work and understood, got a better idea of what was going on. And then from there, we went to Mauritania and from there, you know, mainland Europe and the rest of it. So that's how it looks in the documentary. And that's how it looked when we were actually filming this behind the scenes. But that would be the West African so-called migration route. And just so everybody's kind of aware of the logistics behind this, you know, mass migration, if we want to call it that or invasion of Europe, that is, uh, the most dangerous route to get into Europe.

[00:03:01] Anthony Rubin: It's also a very commonly used route. You know, that would be the Atlantic route or the West African route, as it's also called. Then there is the Mediterranean route where you will have, uh, these individuals leave from countries like Tunisia and they will land on Italian islands and then, you know, from there they enter, uh, mainland Italy, and then they could go across the European Union. And then there is the, uh, the overland route and you will have groups primarily from the Middle East that will enter Turkey. And then from there, they could get into Greece and then again, uh, traveled throughout the European Union. So you're in the EU and it is very easy to cross over, uh, national borders. So we followed the Atlantic route and, um, yeah, one of three potential routes we could have followed.

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[00:06:27] Dr. Bret Weinstein: To me, what you found following the Atlantic route from Africa all the way up to Great Britain looks a very much like an invasion and be shockingly like what you and I both saw in Central America. This is a massive wave of people that are entering Europe and the United States illegally for, well, it's a mysterious pattern, right? It's a huge number of people moving and what you would expect in the face of such an invasion is resistance from the countries that are being invaded. That is the exact opposite of what you found and what I saw in Central America. You want to describe the kind of facilitation that is going on of this invasion?

[00:07:29] Anthony Rubin: Absolutely. First and foremost, when you visit a country like Mauritania, and just so everybody understands my background, just to take a step back for a minute, um, my brother and I are the first and only individuals, as far as I'm aware, that have followed the entire mass migration route, invasion route, as I prefer to call it, from South America all the way to the US border and now from Africa into Europe. And so that's our background. And, you know, just if anybody's wondering, you know, who I am and what is my credibility and what are my credentials on this issue, you know, those would be the two big things. And we've obviously done a lot of other, uh, derivative work from those two, you know, incredible journeys. Um, now to answer your question, first and foremost, when you visit a country like Mauritania, one of the worst places I've ever visited, and I've been throughout Central America and South America, where a lot of the individuals who were entering the United States and the Biden administration, uh, come from or came from rather, uh, those countries in South America and Central America don't even compare to the conditions that you see in West Africa.

[00:08:44] Anthony Rubin: When you're in a country like Mauritania, it becomes very obvious actually why anybody who is from Mauritania and actually Mauritania is the better of some of these West African countries. If you're looking at a country like, uh, Senegal or further South and Sierra Leone, or to their, to their East, you have Mali and Chad. Uh, these are countries that are war torn. There is no hope for upward mobility. Uh, honestly, the rest of anybody who lives there will likely spend their life in sand and dust and mud. And that is it for them. And so you could very easily see, you know, if you are somebody that is living in a country like that, that you are going to risk your life getting on a boat to enter Europe. And so I say that because just on the outside, I want to make very clear that, you know, while there are groups that are facilitating this thing and, and aiding and abetting these invaders on their journey into Europe and then assisting them once they get to Europe, uh, a lot of it is organic.

[00:09:44] Anthony Rubin: And you notice that when you enter these countries that, you know, these individuals, especially in the age of, uh, digital media, where everybody's got a phone, even in these con, these third world countries, everybody has a phone. They could see what modern Western civilization is like, and it's very appealing and for them, they, they have nothing to lose. So you could see organically why there is a mass movement of people. And I don't want to dismiss the fact that there is just an organic movement of people that are getting onto boats and showing up. But now let me get to your question. I, it's important to give that preface though, to answer your question, the groups that are behind this, the King daddy above them all would be the United Nations, and this is a group that you see operating here in the Americas. And it's also a group that you see operating in Europe.

[00:10:29] Anthony Rubin: And to get more specific, you are talking about UNHCR. That'd be the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. And you're talking about an organization called the IOM, which is the International Organization of Migration. And again, these are organizations that work in the Americas and in Europe. In the Americas, the IOM, for example, was handing out maps in, uh, Colombia. In the Darién Gap before they enter the North American continent. And also in Panama, once they crossed through the Darién Gap and they have entered North America, they were assisting individuals in getting through the pan, uh, Panama's Darién Gap. And then also assisting them once they exited the Darién Gap to then navigate North.

[00:11:13] Dr. Bret Weinstein: In fact, the IOM office is sitting there in prominently in the Canal Zone with a view of the Bridge of the Americas. So you have the UN sitting in Panama, ushering refugees through Panama. Northward the UN is causal here. I'll come back to your point about the organic part of the migrations, uh, later, but let me let you finish your answer.

[00:11:40] Anthony Rubin: Yes. And I know it's long winded. I just want to make sure that we, we get into the, the, the fine details here. It's very important. So to give people an idea here in the Americas, another thing that the IOM was doing before these so-called migrants would cross through the Darién Gap and if, for anybody who doesn't know what the Darién Gap is, this is the strip of land that connects North and South America. And for decades, it was essentially uninhabited jungle that was primarily used as a drug smuggling corridor. You had these armed guerrilla groups that would also operate in there, but it was uninhabited. And there was actually a logistical reason for that. The idea was that, well, you know, we actually don't want to build a super highway connecting North and South America. If there is a war or if there is a plague or some sort of event, you want to be able to sequester it to either continent.

[00:12:30] Anthony Rubin: Part of the idea in keeping it an uninhabited jungle,

[00:12:34] Dr. Bret Weinstein: difficult to pass. I mean, you, one risks their life to cross the Darién Gap because the Pan-American Highway was deliberately not completed through that region.

[00:12:46] Anthony Rubin: Correct, correct. And it is very treacherous jungle. There's many risks when you cross through that jungle, and I have crossed it with my brother, we can get into that. But to, I'm just to, to answer your question about the organizations behind the IOM, which is one of them, again, operating in Europe and America, was handing these so-called migrants. I don't mean to sound crude, but what I could only describe as a rape kit. So they would hand them kits that would have condoms and day-after pills and whistles, and essentially they would hand them these kits to these so-called migrants in the event that they were going to face rape in the jungle, which is a common occurrence. That's one of the organizations now in Europe, which is what our documentary is about, we actually caught an IOM worker on hidden camera and we can get into the details of what that individual revealed to us.

[00:13:38] Anthony Rubin: It was absolutely incredible. But other organizations that are behind this, one of the ones that we saw in Europe was a group called Assam. This is an organization that is hiding behind. They're claiming to be a Christian group. By their actions, they're anything but there is Hebrew Immigrant Aid Societies, which we did not see during our journey in Europe, but we have seen them operating in the Americas. Obviously the United Nations, you have the Red Cross is another one. You have the Norwegian Refugee Council. So I'm definitely forgetting a few of them, but these are some of the big players.

[00:14:13] Dr. Bret Weinstein: So these NGOs in collaboration with the UN are creating routes. They create safe houses where people who don't have papers can shelter. They are supplying them with resources. And as you do a very good job of documenting in your recent film, this is all proceeding, at least as it looks from the outside, from some kind of ideology in which these organizations appear to see migration as an inherent good, that this is, that they see this as increasing the functionality of the world rather than a terrible byproduct of rotten conditions in one place and the natural tendency of people to flee. They see migration is inherently good and their job as to facilitate it in violation of the laws of the countries through which these people are migrating and to which they are settling. So I found that completely shocking. It's hard for me to imagine that anybody would actually put it in black and white, you know, in their documents, but it is there and you show those documents.

[00:15:37] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Were you surprised to find that?

[00:15:40] Anthony Rubin: Well, maybe three years ago, I was surprised at this point. I mean, it is still shocking, but I guess I hate to say it. You kind of become conditioned to it. And this just is the reality. And for anybody who maybe wants to know some of these documents that we're talking about, for anybody that is not familiar with the United Nations Agenda 2030, this is a basically an initiative that was signed on by the US and other countries in 2015. So on the part of the US, it was Obama who brought us on board with Agenda 2030. And the Agenda 2030 blueprint is very clear to read. Anybody can download the PDF today and go skim through it. It is essentially a blueprint for world socialism. There is no better way to describe it. It talks about our new collective future together. Talks about how we are going to build a world free of poverty and hunger and disease and want.

[00:16:35] Anthony Rubin: So what does that sound like? But a blueprint for world socialism? Then of course, it talks about how we're going to get there. But as part of that and what it has to do with this mass migration, there are there's another document, a derivative document called Migration and the 2030 Agenda, which again, anybody that's listening to this can go download the PDF and find this exact quote I'm about to say. It calls in that document. It references so-called migrants. Again, if we want to call them that, I would call them invaders. But it says that they are quote unquote agents of development and that the goal of migration in the 2030 Agenda is not to stop but to facilitate migration of people. So this is just one of the documents. And, you know, so that's part of it. The other part of it, I would say, is that there are just certainly groups that are making a lot of money facilitating this.

[00:17:30] Anthony Rubin: And there's these cottage industries now that have sprouted up. That, you know, they will be destroyed if, you know, you're to cut off the flow of these people. And, you know, for that reason, you see it here in the United States and in Europe, I believe that there is almost like a lobbying effort either to keep this, keep the borders open or certainly to prevent any sort of mass deportation effort.

[00:17:55] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yeah, it's very curious, actually, Heather and I covered this on a recent livestream. So there are really two levels of people who are harmed if you stop the flow. One is the level of people who are participating in the official facilitation. In other words, the organizations that are making this happen are dumping large amounts of money into the pipeline where basically it becomes obvious to the people who are doing this that as long as they are facilitating the flow, they will get paid. If the flow stops, their income will dry up. That causes people to become advocates for for migration who otherwise probably wouldn't have a stake in it or might oppose it. But the other is what we'll what we saw in Central America was that there were effectively towns that sprung up or grew from a small size to a much larger size because of all of the migrants who were flowing through, which created, you know, a market for food and other things.

[00:19:11] Dr. Bret Weinstein: So you have these towns that temporarily went through a boom. And then when the Trump administration did halt the flow of migrants through the Darién Gap, suddenly their well-being collapsed. And the reason I raise that is that one of the interesting facts is that these NGOs that pretend to be so concerned about the well, the well-being of downtrodden people. Such that they're facilitating their flow through Central America doesn't seem to care at all about the people who were harmed by the fact that that flow was temporary and are now in dire straits. So this is not about compassion. This is about I think you're framing as some kind of global socialist utopia, at least at the level of most of the people who are facilitating this. That's what they must think that they are doing. Now, go ahead.

[00:20:07] Anthony Rubin: Well, I would agree with you. I think that, however, at a low level, I think that the low level foot soldiers and this is kind of what we experienced in Europe, the low level foot soldiers, I think that they are, you know, these are idealists and these are kind of useful idiots. I think at the higher levels of the people who are drafting blueprints for Agenda 2030, I think they are well aware of the dangers that are inherent in bringing in, you know, millions upon millions of foreigners into Western society. And I think that the low level foot soldiers are that's exactly what they are. They're useful idiots. And I completely agree with you that they think that they are doing a service to the world. And it's almost like this self sacrificing endeavor for them. I could give you an example. This is not even something that made it into our documentary.

[00:21:03] Anthony Rubin: But what we found when we were operating in Europe, for example, there was this organization, a very big organization. And I actually have to tip my hat to them. It was a this leftist collective. There was many different leftist groups that operated in this warehouse. And it was actually quite impressive. They have volunteers, 30 to 40 of them that show up on a daily basis. And it's this collective of leftist nonprofits and other groups that operate in this giant warehouse. And the sole purpose, again, they have like 30 to 40 people manning this warehouse every day. The sole purpose is to facilitate the flow of individuals who are in a Calais, France and help them while they're living in these camps in the forest and then help them to cross the English Channel. And when I tell you these individuals, it's there. They were sacrificing their own health to help these people.

[00:21:58] Anthony Rubin: And I could give you an example. Every day they bring in about 10 to 20 volunteer cooks and they cook giant batches of soup and other food for these invaders. And then they go to the camps and they hand it out. And the volunteers themselves would even say, well, you know, we make sure that we don't eat any of the fresh soup. We're only allowed to touch the soup once it's a day or two old and no longer suitable for the migrants. So they they will literally only eat themselves. They will only eat food that is going bad and too old for the migrants. It's this self sacrificing thing. And that I could only describe it as suicidal empathy, which I guess is the word of that's the phrase from Gad Saad, I believe, is who came up with that. That's exactly what it is. If there was ever suicidal empathy to be witnessed, it was what I saw with some of these organizations, these low level foot soldiers that were helping to facilitate this mass flow of individuals.

[00:22:56] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Well, I agree. And I find that let's put it this way. I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised because we've seen this in so many different contexts. But I do want to it's not really a pushback. I'm sure you'll agree with this. But you've described two levels, which I see also there's the do-gooders who think that, you know, they've been convinced by the documents that migration is an inherent good and they are therefore improving the world by facilitating it. And then there are the architects who you describe as aware of the damage that will be done by massive waves of migrants from different cultures into the West. And I don't think that they're just aware. This must be the point. At some level, the mystery for me is who is really behind this and what is it they're really trying to accomplish? What's presented in Agenda 2030 is a fiction designed to persuade the foot soldiers.

[00:24:03] Dr. Bret Weinstein: There's obviously a higher purpose to disrupting the West. The destruction is visible on the ground. And in fact, it becomes very clear that even filming, you know, at the foot of the Eiffel Tower, you are documenting the destruction of a civilization and there is resistance to you filming. In fact, your brother, I believe, was physically attacked and injured, hit in the head, simply filming what's going on on a public street right at the foot of the Eiffel Tower. In what universe, if what is going on is so marvelous for the world, then why on earth should you not be allowed to film it? Somebody knows that the destruction is going to be the result of this and they are not only OK with it, they are attempting to accelerate it. A, do you agree with that? And B, do you have a sense of who that might be and what they might be trying to accomplish?

[00:25:09] Anthony Rubin: Well, I absolutely agree with it. I would say that if you want to put a they on it first, I would say that this is warfare and in any war there are there are so many moving parts, right? It's easier said than done to put a stop to it. For example, not to digress, but look at the war in Ukraine and what's going on in Iran. Both the war in Ukraine, Donald Trump came in and I genuinely believe that he thought that he was going to be able to wave a magic wand, you know, and make some sort of a deal and put a stop to the war. And then you realize that actually it's really a lot more complicated than that. There are so many moving parts. There are so many vested interests that it's actually not just as easy as snapping your fingers and putting it into it. And it's the same in Iran now. Now, there are these are completely different situations than the soft warfare that is this mass migration of people, but it's soon not to be soft anymore.

[00:26:12] Anthony Rubin: However, but the point is there is now an entire apparatus behind this and it is easier said than done, I believe, to just snap your fingers and put a stop to it. But it's certainly easier to do that than end the war in ending the war in Ukraine or Iran. But I'm just comparing the two because I just want to make clear that there is such a apparatus and industry behind this now. And not even just that, there are very, very large groups like whole voting blocks. That will get violent if you try to do something about this. Right. Look what's going on in Europe right now. Look what happened in the United States just less than a year ago when we were trying to deport people that have no stay here in Minneapolis or Los Angeles. You have giant groups of individuals in total, the amount to a sizable voting block that will actually mobilize and take to the street and get violent if you try to put a stop to this.

[00:27:05] Anthony Rubin: And so my point is that and I'm going to answer your question, there are absolutely interests that are facilitating this, that understand very well what's going on and what is going to happen in the long run to Western civilization. But my other point is that even those who wish to stop it are met with this mass apparatus that is easier said than done to put to shut down. And so to answer your question as to who is bringing this about and knowingly contributing to the destruction of our civilization, I believe there are groups, as a matter of fact, we know that there are groups of individuals that will benefit when there are no longer sovereign nation states. Right. There are multinational organizations that could actually operate a lot easier and reap a lot more profits if there were no more sovereign nation states. If instead of the United States and Germany and France and the UK and every other nation in the world that has its own laws and rules of governance, instead of that, you basically just have giant economic zones.

[00:28:11] Anthony Rubin: And that is exactly what will happen if you have enough of this mass migration. Nation states will cease to exist. And what is going to happen is exactly what I just said. Nations will fall by the wayside and essentially you will just have giant mass economic and national sovereignty won't mean anything because there will be no more national identity. It'll just it'll be gone with the wind. That'll be it. I think in the past.

[00:28:34] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Well, that is unfortunately a bit more hopeful than my expectation of where this goes. I, of course, don't know. But our final sponsor this week is CrowdHealth. CrowdHealth isn't health insurance. It's better. CrowdHealth is a community of people helping to decentralize health care costs from funding medical costs to helping negotiate your bills. We've had it for several years now instead of insurance and have had occasion to use it a few times. Each time the CrowdHealth community has helped fund the hospital bills with a simple straightforward app and we have interacted with people who are easy to reach and helpful. You too can stop playing the rigged insurance game. With CrowdHealth you get health care for under one hundred dollars per month for your first three months, including access to a team of health bill negotiators, low cost prescription lab testing tools and a database of low cost high quality doctors vetted by CrowdHealth.

[00:29:29] Dr. Bret Weinstein: The health insurance system is hoping you'll stay stuck in their overpriced, over complicated mess. Don't do it. Take charge of your health expenses and be part of the community. Join CrowdHealth to get started today for ninety nine dollars a month for your first three months using code DARKHORSE at joincrowdhealth.com. That's joincrowdhealth.com, code DARKHORSE. CrowdHealth is not insurance opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. joincrowdhealth.com. Let's go back to the question of Ukraine. You said it's more complicated than just snapping your fingers or waving a magic wand. Again I think this is darker. I think. A I don't think the. War in Ukraine is fundamentally different than the invasion of Britain or the rest of continental Europe. I think the same forces are involved in a grand reorganization of certainly the West and really actually the planet and they haven't shared their plans or their objectives.

[00:30:39] Dr. Bret Weinstein: But I don't think the plan is. To leave Muslims in charge of Europe for example which is demographically just simply what the trajectory that we are currently on. This seems to be a mechanism for creating chaos to topple structures that otherwise will not break. So far that matches your. Model but the idea that human beings are going to continue to function as economic zones without national boundaries. I would imagine that that's a temporary state in other words I don't think these migrants from Africa are being handed. The crown jewels I think they're being used to displace the citizenry and that. Frankly the spoils will be divvied up and that the migrants themselves are also useful idiots in this in this game. And you know the war in Iran is different than the war in Ukraine but some of the same. Motivation seemed to underlie it. In other words this does look like a campaign to destabilize Iran that chaos itself is desired and I think you know I don't know why I don't know why the war in Ukraine is happening the way it is but it has looked to me from the beginning like some collection of powerful forces desired.

[00:32:19] Dr. Bret Weinstein: A locus of chaos it desired to feed a generation or really actually now two and a half generations of Ukrainian men into a meat grinder. What is the purpose of doing that? A it leaves Ukraine essentially defenseless and I suppose in light of the fact that Ukraine is a very resource rich country with very valuable land that actually if you wanted to take Ukraine using Russia as a bludgeon might be a reasonable plan if you were you know a psychopath. So something like that is happening and it doesn't look you know I mean we dance around this question of is what's going on in Europe an invasion. I think it is unambiguously an invasion and what's confusing the reason that we can't apply that term to it is that an invasion implies resistance that we don't see. Right it's shocking I mean what you what you filmed as the refugees are boarding these smuggling boats on the northern coast of France where there are no police anywhere police make a show of showing up maybe because you're filming but they make a show showing up when it's too late to do anything about it right this is all just theater as somebody is moving massive numbers of people who don't you're not looking to become British these people don't have any relationship with the concept of becoming British at best they're looking for an economic

[00:34:05] Dr. Bret Weinstein: improvement to their lives but let's be honest you know the part of this is organic you pointed to that people want to go where there's a more productive economy because it offers greater opportunities that much is organic but there's also the facilitation of their migration the very suggestion that this is something that they should want right and there are flat out incentives you interviewed people who were being put up in fancy hotels in Britain and being given 300 pounds a month to spend as they want if they want to get an education that's free to them whereas people who are British and struggling don't get any of those benefits this doesn't make the slightest bit of sense and of course they're moving in response to those incentives.

[00:34:58] Anthony Rubin: Absolutely yes and in Europe the incentive structure over there is much much much more vast the incentive structure here in the United States and Europe when these invaders show up first of all you know I agree with you it is very important to label this appropriately as an invasion the only reason why perhaps I will slow roll that sometimes is depending on the audience that I'm speaking to you know it's important to make sure that you don't lose people because as of right now I don't believe that we are we have reached critical mass right of individuals that are at least voting age who will readily identify this as an invasion we're certainly getting there and so you know I would like to try to win those people over and I don't want to turn these groups off right away by just coming out guns blazing and saying it's an invasion but you know now that we're already deep enough in the podcast if anybody's still listening they're probably with us it is absolutely an invasion and you know I don't even think that an invasion the definition needs to be set by whether or not there is a resistance to it you know all an invasion is is a mass incursion of people to a certain area and that's what you're seeing here the fact that there is no resistance to it well there certainly will be made let's just delayed

[00:36:19] Anthony Rubin: resistance but there is going to be some sort of a civil conflict but to bring it back to your last point about the incentive structure as I said at the beginning of this these individuals are coming from countries where there is no hope and again if anybody wants to go to the country of Mauritania that is one of the better of these West African countries and there's absolutely nothing there it's a horrible place you see very easily why there would be an incentive to go to Europe where what they offer over there is while these individuals are waiting for their asylum to be claimed to be processed they are given a monthly stipend they're giving a place to live they're giving free medical care and they get to live in Western civilization so you could only imagine for somebody that has nothing why they would take advantage of that

[00:37:09] Dr. Bret Weinstein: yeah well from the point of view of whether or not it's an invasion I agree with you it is and my point about the lack of resistance is just that you know we use proxies to recognize something and you would expect resistance to an invasion and not seeing it we're confused as to what's really going on are these people really you know you know looking for asylum are they fleeing persecution I don't know what goes on in Mauritania enough to know whether persecution is a common thing so you know people I think are just confused by the fact that this doesn't look like any prior example however I am a biologist I am the originator of a model called lineage selection and lineage selection posits that for all creatures that there is an evolutionary drive to displace competitors where possible those competitors can be of your species they can be of a different species or within a species like ours that has many different subpopulations one population can displace another that is clearly what is going on in Europe and it was clearly what was going on during the Biden administration in the US somebody is taking a population or several populations and they are displacing the population that currently exists for a reason now.

[00:38:42] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Again I end up struggling with the who is doing it and why I don't think the Muslim world is somehow has cleverly figured out how to breach all of the boundaries in the West and inflict this population on Europe Europe is inflicting this on itself. That does not follow directly from lineage selection that strikes me as if it fits it must be instrumental somebody is trying to create chaos in the US you might argue that because our Constitution is. Very protective of individual rights that if you found the rights in the Constitution inconvenient to your objectives you might want to replace the population that has a. An allegiance to those rights and a belief that they are God given and that they actually exist you might want to replace that population with people who have no concept of having inherent rights that can't be violated that might be an easier population to control.

[00:39:55] Dr. Bret Weinstein: But you know in the end. This is clearly a plan the plan functions by virtue of the fact that well I challenge anyone to watch your documentary and then explain why this is not being covered. On in the mainstream publications right and I know from my own work going to Darién. That actually we forced the conversation to jump to the mainstream that they were their plan was not to talk about it and that putting it in high profile places meant that it was on enough minds that they had to say something so it you know. I'm very impressed with your work, but this should not be driven by you know. Brothers who are willing to risk life and limb. You know on the ground following a migration route all of the entities that have a giant newsroom in a big budget. How to be following the story and asking the very question is this in our interest who is pushing it what are they trying to accomplish and yet it's not happening.

[00:41:06] Anthony Rubin: Well. I completely agree with you and. One thing I will say about what's going on in Europe and this is just from a I guess a journalistic angle. You know over that well over here in the United States let's start here in the Americas rather when my brother and I we follow the entire route from South America starting in Ecuador to Colombia through the Darién Gap through Central America and Mexico to the US border. Our biggest fear when we were on that journey was criminal organizations of which we ran into many and rightfully so at the very end of that journey we were kidnapped at gunpoint by the Gulf Cartel. And so that was our fear, however, when you're operating in a country like or rather in a place like Europe. And in Africa it it's much different out there out there are fear were actually the governments of these various countries. You know when I'm walking around in Mexico trying to catch something on a camera document something you know the again I don't think that the government of Mexico is going to.

[00:42:15] Anthony Rubin: Detain me and then throw me in a dungeon for recording things the fear is that you run into a cartel group or some street thugs and you know they beat the crap out of you or worse and take your gear and that's the end of that. In a country or rather in a place like Africa or in Europe the fear the very real concern is that. The actual government is going to operate against you and prevent you from documenting these things and I'll give you just one example we were in Mauritania. And I could have been thrown in dungeon out there we didn't actually end up getting any hidden camera footage that was worthwhile from Mauritania but I was walking around at times with a hidden camera. And there was one instance where I was filming with my big DSLR camera just the outside of an IOM building what's the big deal right I'm I can't film a building in public I had a car pull up to me.

[00:43:09] Anthony Rubin: And an individual got out identified himself as a colonel in the army and said that I needed permission to film the building and told me to wait where I was. And he goes inside the building and I was waiting outside of this building for a few minutes and I just decided you know what I better get out of here because if this guy comes back out and searches me he's going to find all my gear we might be thrown in a dungeon. Europe it's similar Europe if you are caught doing these things you could face arrest and so I guess my point is not that this is an excuse but I can see why. Doing something like what my brother and I have done in our documentary that we just published replacing Europe it might be difficult for some of these other organizations to try it they might not want to incur the risk both legal risk and physical risk and. But I agree with you there should be more people doing it but I guess I'm just giving another perspective as to why maybe some of these organizations might be hesitant to do so it is not easy to operate as a journalist in other countries here in the United States we have it on easy mode.

[00:44:13] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yeah you're a very generous guy when the press is ignoring an invasion of the country that. It is housed in something has gone wrong the press by its very nature is supposed to take whatever risks are necessary to expose the stories that the population vitally needs to understand so. You I appreciate the generosity of spirit that you have for the mainstream organizations that are not covering the story but as far as I'm concerned they can fuck right off you guys are doing hard work and you know you've put your lives in jeopardy. You can see it in your current film and you can see it in the work you did in Central America and Mexico right you guys are actually risking your lives to expose a story that all of us need to be thinking about because we are being displaced. We are being displaced and somehow. A majority of our society is too afraid of being called racist to notice that they are being replaced that is a profound failure of Western civilization and it's going to be fatal if we don't figure it out quickly I mean you do a great job in your film covering the demographic reality you know and I'm sorry I don't mean to go on at length here but.

[00:45:50] Dr. Bret Weinstein: The juxtaposition. Of hey you have a massive wave of invaders being ushered in to all of these countries at the very same time that within those countries something is pushing the idea that hey it's pretty sophisticated not to have children hey it's pretty sophisticated to switch which sex you are and to get a doctor to surgically sterilize you. Abortion is pretty darn cool right these anti natal ideas are happening at the same time as this invasion and yeah that could be a coincidence but it's far more reasonable to imagine that something actually doesn't want the inhabitants of these countries to replace themselves they want them displaced by others and it isn't racist to notice that.

[00:46:41] Anthony Rubin: I completely agree and I guess I might ask you a question so if you look at an individual if we want to just like. Laser beam focus on who is behind this right let's actually name people you could look at an individual like George Soros in the open society foundation there's plenty of material there to investigate. But my question to you might be how much of this is individuals sitting in a smoky room planning this out versus general societal decadence and in this state of the decadence and decay loss of national identity loss of morals. In its place you have these various different groups. That are operating in a decentralized manner that are pushing these various initiatives like you said radical gender ideology open borders whatever else and so then it become it rather than it being you know a small group of people interested people who are pushing this from the top down there is a general state of decay and from that state of the decay gives rise to these.

[00:47:49] Anthony Rubin: Various groups that are contributing to our national destruction I mean what do you think about that.

[00:47:55] Dr. Bret Weinstein: It's a great question. Effectively I have to guess based on my experience across a lifetime and my. Training and exposure as a biologist. If I had to guess I would say. Something at the very top of this set of policies is inducing the self destructive behaviors of the society. In other words it doesn't take that much nudging to get people to behave in a self destructive fashion and that that's really what's going on so and I also would just say that. I think us regular folks. Do not understand how much work can be done. If you're willing to dump huge sums of money on. The architecture in other words you have an interview. In Mauritania, I believe. With a guy who keeps saying effectively don't you get it it's all a game. Why are the police behaving the way they are because the ones who are facilitating this are making three times as much as the police two towns over.

[00:49:17] Dr. Bret Weinstein: So not only does that mean you would expect them to behave that way I mean think about it your income can be you know. Three times as great you're the well being of your family can be three times as great if you just simply go along with some policy where you're ushering through people who are going to end up in you know France. Okay it's going to be pretty hard for people in a place as tough as you're describing to turn that down but you can also imagine that if you and your brother show up. And you start filming and the next thing you know it's all over the Internet that a person who's making three times as much who's a police officer in a country where you don't have any standing you know. You might find yourself dead in a ditch and yeah for a few news cycles people will talk about what happened to you and you know the order come from on high or was it somebody acting up from their own volition but the point is.

[00:50:16] Dr. Bret Weinstein: You're creating a structure that will defend itself the reason that you're creating it we still don't know but why the structure forms and facilitates this thing it just it's pretty simple incentives right.

[00:50:32] Anthony Rubin: You know it absolutely is and we can get into this the individual that you're talking about was a worker from the International Organization of Migration which again is this United Nations. It's the United Nations so-called migration wing essentially and we incredibly found this man who claimed to be the only IOM worker on the entire Canary Island chain and I found him by sheer luck. This is the thing with investigative journalism unless you're operating with a very very strong lead like somebody's coming to you and they're just putting something in your lap and saying here's the lead here's you need to go this is what you're going to find just get it on camera unless you have something like that a lot of times it's a fishing expedition which is exactly what this was we had a general idea of what was going on we knew there were boats showing up in the Canary Islands and obviously then going to mainland Europe for there from there but we.

[00:51:30] Anthony Rubin: You know that was basically it was just kind of a high level understanding what the situation was but the nitty gritty of which we it's a fishing expedition you don't know what you're going to find you just got to put boots on the ground start looking so anyway we arrive in the Canary Islands and a boat shows up. To the island of El Hierro and that's the main island it it's one of the southern-most island so it's the island that the invaders encounter first when they're arriving by boat generally speaking. And a boat shows up and first of all we weren't even allowed to film the boat so I had a drone in the sky and this the Spanish maritime rescue service I believe is the the name of the organization that actually goes out in the rescue boat and tows the invader boat in. They saw my drone overhead and then somebody comes up to me and they said that they called the cops and I actually had to hand the memory card from the drone to my brother and he had to go stash it somewhere so that when the police showed up I could show them that actually no no no I was just taking photos of El Hierro I didn't have any photos of the boat or anything we would never do such a thing it's very dangerous to operate out there but anyway.

[00:52:39] Anthony Rubin: I follow the bus that's carrying these individuals after they disembark and they're put in a bus and they're driven to a camp and I see this man in a blue vest and I identify him correctly as a UN worker so I meet him and I asked him if we could take him out for lunch and what this individual told me was. Very it was the most incredible thing and people can watch the documentary if they want to see what we published I'm not gonna repeat that but one of the things he told me which is not in the documentary. Because we didn't get this on camera we met with him multiple times and after a while I kind of just I decided let's leave well enough alone I don't want him to catch us recording him in a secret manner or we might get arrested and thrown in prison so. You know one of the things he told us though off camera was he said you know a lot of the individuals that come here.

[00:53:27] Anthony Rubin: They claim to be from Mali because Mali right now is in a state of civil war and so if you show up to Europe and you claim to be from Mali. Well maybe you're actually gonna have your asylum claim process and so you have all these individuals from various states of Africa they show up with no paperwork no idea who they are and they just claim that they're from Mali. And they given the laws of the European Union in these various nation states that a lot of times is cause enough for them to have their asylum claim process so that along with what are the other things that we were able to get out of this IOM worker. Another thing that he told us this was the most incredible thing I still kick myself for not getting this on camera. I said what's your job here you know what do you do all day why why why is the IOM sent you here what is your purpose and he says well.

[00:54:17] Anthony Rubin: My job is when these individuals are taken off their boats and put into camps I interview each one of them and my goal is to basically understand where did they come from and how did they get here. So that I can then forward that information to the relevant authorities and then hopefully the smuggling groups in Africa can be broken up and you think okay sure okay so you're you interview them and you understand okay who brought you here who did you pay and then maybe. They can these groups in Africa can be broken up somehow you know what this guy told me I said well that's very interesting. And you know how does that work and he goes well he goes I don't actually report the groups that do the smuggling because I only report the groups that rip off the migrants and take their money and never smuggle that this is what this guy told me. If you could even believe that wow yeah I still kick myself for not getting that on camera but I swear with all my credibility that those are the words that came out of that man's mouth so.

[00:55:17] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Those it's. Whatever racket it is that is facilitating this invasion is unhappy that somebody is muscling in on their action and. Reducing the rate of flow somebody lining their own pockets so basically you have a criminal organization defending its racket against other criminal organizations that's fascinating.

[00:55:45] Anthony Rubin: And you have to wonder you have to wonder do these smuggling organizations. We're in the realm of speculation now I just want to make that clear but when you hear that kind of a statement that the individual working for the UN. Who is supposed to be gathering information from the so called migrants actual invaders. In order to figure out who smuggled them into Europe and then bring that information to the authorities that the authorities can prosecute these groups if that guy is saying well actually I only go after. And report the organizations that don't do the smuggling that rip off the migrants. It makes you wonder. And by the way, that guy. He was living in the Canary Islands and he had been living in different parts of Spain for ten years he had been doing my so called migration related work through various different organizations. But he is originally from Sierra Leone and so my point is I wonder and this is just sort of a thought I'm having now with you.

[00:56:36] Anthony Rubin: But it's not outside of the realm of possibility that you could have these smuggling organizations actually putting their people in certain positions in the United Nations of the IOM or whatever NGOs to then help facilitate their mass pipeline that is you know lining their pockets with a lot of money.

[00:56:56] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yeah it's a little hard to know who's where my guess would be that the smugglers themselves are basically. You can guarantee that such a business will arise. If you create the economic pressure. For people to move and then this weird attempt to police it. My guess is that no the smugglers are not in charge in any way but. But I don't know this is I think at the end we are going to be left with the question. Of two questions who is really at the top who architected this policy and what is it that they actually are attempting to accomplish I think if we knew those two things it would be game over for them but. Well let me ask you this one of the things that I'm scratching my head over. As somebody who played a significant role in calling. The attention of Americans to the invasion that was coming through Central America. I understood Trump to be.

[00:58:14] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Opposed to this migration in no uncertain terms. That appears to have been partly right he did stop the flow through Darién. The border is closed as I understand it. But the massive deportations that I was expecting to follow did not happen. It's hard to put a number on how many people came through with the. Help of the Biden administration which transported them into the interior housed them in very nice places gave them resources that again Americans were struggling or not getting. Totally paradoxical behavior I would have expected the Trump administration. To reverse that process I did see the pushback of course to ICE. But. Trump seems to have. Walked away and he's left us with the invasion that had already occurred presumably the invasion will start again at the point that the blue team is once again in power. So. I'm I'm left wondering what his commitments are and why he would have behaved that way do you do you have any sense.

[00:59:31] Anthony Rubin: Well one could only guess at the end of the day because what infuriates me is when we hear. Individuals it kind of you know hand wave away Trump's response to Trump's culpability in this mass deportation betrayal and they say well it's it's the staffers is the people that are around him as Susie Wiles whoever. And so I think that's nonsense I think that if Trump wanted mass deportations there would be mass deportations but he doesn't and the question is whether or not he was actually ever serious about it or whether or not it was just a campaign promise because. Trump obviously knows what his base wants and his base wants mass deportations they want national sovereignty right they want to make sure that they are not demographically replaced and he is not delivering on that and. It really is a question in my mind of whether or not it was ever a serious promise or if it was just campaign nonsense and he never was serious about it to begin with but one thing is for certain and this is really the sad part about it is that.

[01:00:37] Anthony Rubin: Well, let me let me tell you that so. In two years ago in the summer of 2024 I spent about three months going around the country knocking on doors looking for some of these unaccompanied alien children and for anybody who doesn't remember what the situation was two years ago. The headline reports were that the Biden administration had lost track of hundreds of thousands of these unaccompanied minors that these minors would come across and then they would be. Placed with various sponsors here in the United States and then the reports were that well the Biden administration actually has lost track of these minors they don't know where they are now so I was given a. List from an HHS insider that had the names of like a few thousand children and where they were delivered in the United States the name of their sponsor the address they went to and a lot of other information so we spent.

[01:01:32] Anthony Rubin: Months three months going around knocking on doors looking for these kids and seeing what we could find and this is that's a whole other story and I don't need to go on too much of a tangent here you know we did find trafficking instances. More than one trafficking instance we found instances where you know the so called sponsors said well I gave the kid away but I don't mean to get into that what is my point in bringing that up my point is this. I'm I'm I kid you not 90 plus percent of the doors we knocked on okay it would be some. So-called migrant from who knows where right I mean Venezuela is the most common country but Guatemala Honduras right Colombia you knock on the door 90 plus percent of the time what did I see. A brand newborn baby if not multiple right a lot of children 90 plus percent of the time there was a newborn baby I would say 95 plus close to 100 percent of the time there was some sort of small child.

[01:02:28] Anthony Rubin: And what's the significance of that well the significance of the of that is that. If we wanted to get mass deportations the best time to do it was immediately after Biden's out of office and the situation is still fresh right if you allow this to go on and you don't do mass deportations. For another let's say I believe that we're not going to have a republican in office in twenty twenty eight maybe in twenty thirty two we can so now imagine twenty thirty two now we're gonna have this mass deportation talk well. Some of these individuals that came here and had children those children are going to be going on almost eighteen or they're gonna be adolescents and where is going to be the political will to now come in and break up those families. And deport these people that there's gonna be no political will enter the extent there is it is going to be much harder your the chances of civil conflict erupting have it will have increased in magnitude to a.

[01:03:19] Anthony Rubin: Extreme degree and so it's just very depressing that we were absolutely betrayed on this issue and the one opportunity that I think we had to reverse this it's been. We've just let it go and instead of that we have a war in Iran and nothing to show for it.

[01:03:38] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yeah the opportunity has been squandered unless you point out you know it's just going to become impossible to reverse it very quickly. I will say I'm sort of struggling to phrase this but one of the things in watching your your current documentary that struck me was just how similar. Many of the features that you saw in the Canary Islands in Spain in France are to what was obviously going on in Panama. The you know the encampments that house these people who are. Supposedly fleeing. It's the same people. Engaged in the same play. You correctly trace it back to the UN and these NGOs Michael Yon traces it to the exact same place so. It's some level if you had you know. IQ of 80 or above. You should be looking at this and you should be saying. Invasions are a thing that happens. The UN. Is a body in which nations get together and decide things.

[01:05:03] Dr. Bret Weinstein: That body has decided to facilitate. A flow of desperate people. Into my country. Maybe they're not doing it. For my benefit or the benefit of the people who are. Being ushered in maybe they're doing it for their own benefit you would just have to. Ask whether or not your security system had been breached in a way that was now leaving you vulnerable. And the fact that we don't see that conversation is partly due to the fact that people really don't know. Again to the point that you're risking your life. To make it possible for them to know but you know it's also hard for two brothers with a website to you know reach. Half the country. So what I'm struggling with is. Is it really just the fact that. You know in order to notice what's going on. You have to make yourself vulnerable to the accusation that you must be racially motivated if you're troubled.

[01:06:14] Dr. Bret Weinstein: By all of these Africans flooding into Europe. Then that trouble must be because you view Africans as lesser people or something like that. Is that really what's preventing the mass awakening to the fact that we're under attack.

[01:06:32] Anthony Rubin: I think that's certainly part of it and I think that now we're really drilling down. Onto what the the issue is here right if we want to clearly define it and you have to be careful. When you're having these discussions I think number one because you may turn people that might otherwise. You know join our struggle to maintain national sovereignty and turn the ship around you might just turn them off from the outset but also. We don't want to give the other side easy ammunition against us right little sound bites that they could pull out of context you have to be I try to be. Very very accurate very precise when I speak in these terms and about this issue but. There is of course a racial component to it and it is not that we harbor hate in our hearts for any of these groups and it's not that we consider any other group to be. Inferior but it is a recognition that there are racial differences between various different groups right and.

[01:07:32] Anthony Rubin: With those differences a lot of times you also have cultural differences that come along with it and these are. Not just surface level things I mean these are differences that are ingrained and entrenched into the extent they can be changed it'll take. Hundreds if not thousands of years I mean to have true assimilation right it that's not something that happens in just one generation. Now what happened in the Americas with this mass migration of people. In the early twentieth century late nineteenth century from Europe that might be a different slightly different situation I mean these are all. Caucasians coming from a similar shared Christian background from Europe so assimilation there's a little easier but you know when you have groups that are coming from. Africa where they openly believe, for example in witchcraft that is a common belief as one of many examples you know many of these people are Islamic as well, I mean they're not coming to Germany or France or the UK ready to.

[01:08:37] Anthony Rubin: Convert to Christianity absolutely not and so of course that's not necessarily racial. But there's the racial component of course and there's the cultural component there's the religious component and when you take all of these together and you look at the overall picture. I'm number one it's a very difficult thing to present to somebody most people are just going to want to shut down the conversation and call you racist but to the extent they even are open it takes courage to express these things me it takes courage talk about it right now some of the things we're talking about could be taken out of context and presented in a certain way. They could cause white nationalists and so there's a certain degree of courage that it takes to talk about these issues and unfortunately I don't think that people are going to be ready to do so until. It gets as bad as what we're seeing in France right now where people's businesses and livelihoods are just being destroyed and nobody's doing anything about it.

[01:09:33] Dr. Bret Weinstein: You're right about the how delicate these issues are I've died a thousand deaths already on this front. Maybe it's a little hard to call me a white nationalist since I'm Jewish but but there is a conversation that we have to have and I think I'm in a position to. To hone it a little bit my biological background gives me a place to speak to some of these things like the racial differences let's just say. What I mentioned earlier populations displace each other sometimes they do that by murdering each other okay but the basic point is one population drives out another and takes its resources it steals its niche. And that is a process that has only one alternative. The alternative to civilizations that do that that displace each other in that way is the West. That's the only alternative than anybody's ever come up with and the reason that the West functions differently is because in the West all people are understood to have equal standing and therefore.

[01:10:42] Dr. Bret Weinstein: The idea of rights follows right if you're from a population that views the other lineages not deserving of life because they're not your kin. Then the idea of rights is a paradox why would they have rights right I have the right to their land so. Everything follows from that in the West we don't view it that way so property rights. For example derive from the idea that we actually have rights in the first place and that those rights aren't based on our skin color what's in our genomes anything like that. So what you're watching here is that something. That I struggle to find an alternative term for to evil something evil has decided to take people from populations that are not western and do not believe in your fundamental right to live or you know. To refuse sex or whatever it is. You're taking people from cultures where your lineage dictates what rights you have or don't have and you're inflicting them on the West where that is not the way we do things.

[01:11:50] Dr. Bret Weinstein: So another is this is an attack on western culture and it is an attack based on this ancestral. Genetic drive for one population to drive out another a drive that far precedes our ability to even talk about genes right this is something that goes back into antiquity but. This is now happening in the US and it's happening in Europe and it's not. Subtle. Right this is an attack on the idea of rights it is an attack you can say you know yes it's racism is terrible and I agree, I am no fan of racism the West is the alternative to racism. But an attack on white people is also racism right somebody sold us back during the dark days of woke they sold us the idea that it was impossible to be racist against the white person that was of course nonsense and this is racism against white people somebody is flooding I mean even just at the basic level somebody is flooding your economy with competitors for your children.

[01:12:59] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Right there stealing from your children's future well being for their own purposes which they didn't bother to ask us about so I'm not afraid to say that out loud. And you know the fact that many of these migrants are Islamic that what would you say the sex ratio and the age demographics of the migrant population was that you saw.

[01:13:25] Anthony Rubin: Oh it's military age fighting men actually as a matter of fact the I don't have the precise numbers but the individual that we were talking about earlier from the IOM that I caught on hidden camera. He actually sold me for five hundred euros he sold me internal data he said hey you want some you want this date is a salty for five hundred euros and he sold me. All the data that he had on the boats that had come to the Canary Islands from the start of the year to when I met him in April of that same year and it was 90 plus percent fighting age men and the other 10% is like women and children.

[01:14:02] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Which is a match for what. What my son and I saw when we went with Michael Yon to the Chinese migrant camp in Darién. Right it was military age men flooding in so that's conspicuous of course you couldn't ask for more dangerous demographic if people don't respect your society and they're coming in in large numbers that's not families looking for a better life that's. You know men who are more likely to be risk prone and tolerant of violence and willing to instrumentalize it and of course we've seen. The grooming gang scandal in Britain speaks to a sexual component of this which of course we're not allowed to talk about. But evolutionarily it's not hard to understand what that is that's part of what an invading army often does so. The hallmarks of this attack on the you know the citizens of these countries are all too obvious and it requires actually work on the part of a witness to avoid seeing what it is.

[01:15:17] Dr. Bret Weinstein: But I would say I don't think we need to be apologetic about. A vigorous defense of the West the world is going to descend into lineage against lineage violence if the West is not stabilized and the West is currently under attack on both sides of the Atlantic.

[01:15:38] Anthony Rubin: I completely agree and. I get I would ask you another question which would be. How so you come from an academic background yeah right and I have to imagine that. Well actually this is a perfect question so at universities how many of these professors are left leaning if not radical leftists. And my question to you would be what do you think would have to change or what would people like us have to do or what would have to happen for let's say individuals in academia to. Not only realize the situation for what it is but to vocally speak out against it like we are now.

[01:16:22] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Well I actually think that the problem of the faculty being overwhelmingly left leaning is a much smaller problem to the fact that it is near universally cowards. That's the thing you know you where is the biology department where frankly almost anybody stood up and said hey. There are two sexes and you can't switch between them right we went through how many years of arguing over what what is a woman and. No biologist I mean this there's there aren't simpler questions in biology this is as basic as it gets and you don't have academics willing to stand up and say the most obvious most secure thing you could possibly imagine which is there are two sexes and a human being can't switch between them. Nope didn't happen right likewise medical schools where's the medical school that said actually you know. Surgically maiming. Children so that they become non reproductive is immoral didn't happen so my point would be yeah there are a lot of liberals that's not the issue what you have is.

[01:17:35] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Near universal cowardice it's an epidemic in the academy and if you're looking for help from academics you're not going to get it. Are you familiar with the Asch conformity experiment

[01:17:48] Anthony Rubin: Oh, absolutely, yeah, it's a favorite.

[01:17:51] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Well, why don't you describe it?

[01:17:54] Anthony Rubin: Yeah absolutely I can describe it so the Asch conformity experiment. At a high level what the experiment was right if we if you wanted to recreate it so you have a group of people. And all but one are in on the experiment right they know that this is an experiment but there's one who you could say is being experimented on and so maybe what

[01:18:18] Dr. Bret Weinstein: one is the subject of the experiment all of the others that appear to be subjects are confederates of the experiment.

[01:18:24] Anthony Rubin: Perfectly said exactly and the experiment goes like this. There are three lines presented very simple and they are all of different lengths that's it and it's not like a maybe they're different lengths or it's hard to tell it is very obvious. There's the shortest line the longest line and there's one that's in the middle somewhere and then there is an example line that is presented. And the example line matches one of those three lines very again very obvious like a three year old could do this and. So then they ask there's somebody who asks the individuals that are partaking this experiment you know which of these lines matches and all of the people that are as you said confederates of this experiment. Agree on the incorrect the obviously incorrect match like they'll say that the example line that is being shown matches the longest line when really matches the shortest line and the subject.

[01:19:25] Anthony Rubin: Not always but like more times than not the majority of the time in this experiment the subject will go along will actually. Betray his own vision right he will go against his own logic what he sees right in front of him that obviously the lines don't match and he will raise his hand and agree. With the crowd that the long line, for example, doesn't match the or matches the. Short line even though it obviously doesn't just to go along and not be the odd man out in the crowd and what's interesting about this is what tended to break. This pattern was if you had even one of the confederates break from the crowd and all and not betray his own eyesight. The subject then felt enough confidence and had the courage to do the same and to not go along with the mob and you know agree on a nonsensical conclusion.

[01:20:24] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yes, and the same lesson comes from the Milgram experiment in which the subject of the experiment was asked to engage in a task. With a confederate of the experiment where the the subject of the experiment was required to give increasingly large electric shocks to the. To the confederate of the experiment there were no actual shocks but the person who was the subject of experiment thought that they were and thought that they became increasingly dangerous. And only a small percentage something 10 or 15% depends on the form of the experiment but a small percentage of people. Are willing to stand up until the experimenter know I'm not going to administer a lethal shock to the man in the other room just because he failed to remember a word pair right tiny percentage were willing to stand up for literally the life of this. Person in the other room, but when exposed to an example of somebody challenging the authority of the experimenter the number of people who were willing to stand up goes way up so that's a very important lesson and maybe you and I are modeling this here, yes, there's a racial dynamic to this invasion, we are going to talk about it courageously you can too.

[01:21:41] Dr. Bret Weinstein: I will say, though, with respect to academics. You can see the bad version of the Asch conformity experiment or the Milgram experiment in the fact that my field evolutionary biology. Fails to acknowledge that there's anything to be learned about genocide from the evolutionary dynamic. Right they pretend that there's no evolutionary meaning to one population exterminating a population that is more distantly related. It's preposterous it's like looking at you know a long line and calling it short it makes no sense and yet that's where things stand and why is it that a tiny number of people. Standing up and saying actually what you're all claiming is not true and obviously so well what happens to those people in academia is the academics throw them out. So you know it's like the Asch conformity experiment where you're punished for seeing reality and suddenly nobody can see it.

[01:22:45] Anthony Rubin: You know I do believe a part of this is that we sort of touched on this earlier is that a lot of this is well it is very near it's here in our country. But when you think about your country right, this is a country that spans 3000 miles across most of the country in your day to day or in anybody's day to day life is irrelevant what really matters is the community that you live in right what matters to you and your daily life. You know the community you live in where you go to work every day the routes that you drive and to the extent it's distant I think that people don't really grasp it and I think that and I sort of already touched on this before. But I think what's going to happen at least I we can only hope unless it never happens maybe it's as bad at you know who Yuri Bezmenov was the former, right what did he talk about ideological subversion and what he said was that.

[01:23:40] Anthony Rubin: For anybody who doesn't know who Yuri Bezmenov was, he was a former KGB agent who defected to the West he lived in Canada and he's very famous he gave interviews where he would talk about ideological subversion. And basically the idea is that once a generation of people is ideologically subverted. There's really no way to undo it and you have to wait for that generation of people to die off and for a new generation of individuals to be brought up patriotic minded people. And and that is ultimately how you solve the problem and so we have a general multiple generations of people now that are so ideologically subverted that I don't see how this is going to change. Until the problem is no longer distant oh well it's happening at the border of Texas oh it's happening at the Canary Islands oh well there's there's riots happening but that's just in certain streets in in Paris.

[01:24:36] Anthony Rubin: But you know maybe when it gets so bad that parts large parts of America are like South Africa where you actually have to erect a barbed wire fence around your house and have CCTV cameras running all the time and arm yourself and you know brace yourself for a potential. Race based attack or simply getting robbed maybe when it gets that bad then they'll realize but then it's too late but I guess my hope is that. Not my hope rather I think what's going to happen is it's going to have to get to that point for many of these individuals to actually be ready to admit what the problem is unfortunately.

[01:25:14] Dr. Bret Weinstein: Yeah. I don't understand when I do and I don't understand how it is not already at that point when you look at the riots across Europe. And you look at the migration the invasion that you saw facilitated. And it looks exactly like the invasion that you and I both saw facilitated in Panama and Central America. You don't need to be really good at math to put two and two together. What you're watching in Europe is happening here. They are thumbing their nose at you and your children. They are putting these migrants that they incentivized to come to our countries they are putting them up in five star hotels and giving them money to spend. That they wouldn't give you if you fell on hard times. So. If you don't stand up against that now and you know it's not like it happened this is a process that is going to get worse and as you point out harder to reverse with time.

[01:26:30] Dr. Bret Weinstein: If you don't stand up now it's like saying well I don't think I should quit smoking this week because quitting smoking is hard. It's like yep sure is going to be harder next week even harder the week after right so if you're going to stand up now is the time to stand up and if you're not going to stand up then. Don't you dare wag your finger at us for noticing what's taking place and what it's obvious implication is right you and I have to defend. Our country we have to defend the West we have to defend. The future and we frankly have to defend the world the world is not going to survive very long if the West is destroyed and we are left with nothing but populations that do see the world in vicious racial terms that do constantly look for opportunities to displace each other with whatever weapons they have at their disposal right that's not a world any of us should want to live in.

[01:27:24] Dr. Bret Weinstein: And you and I should not be shamed by anybody for paying attention to that danger for counteracting it for doing what we can to out it. You know we're obviously doing the job more people should be doing by discussing these things and and letting the chips fall where they may. And I you know I have to say. I've done a lot in this fight but you've got skin in the game like nobody I've seen right the danger that you and your brother have faced to get the footage that you have to put the story together in frankly the humane way that you've done it right you're not. Mocking the migrants you're giving them a chance to tell their story right into a camera people can evaluate it for themselves right that's honorable work and done with an extreme amount of courage I you know I worry about you the amount of courage you showed. Is putting you guys in real danger and.

[01:28:27] Dr. Bret Weinstein: And I you know I hope I hope. The cards keep going your way. Is there anything else that you think we should talk about before we wrap this up.

[01:28:40] Anthony Rubin: I think I think this has been a great discussion I would just say. I you do have quite a viewership of your show and many people are going to see this and to the extent that you're still listening to this now. It is absolutely imperative that you be like the individual in the Asch conformity experiment the one who. goes against the grain right who goes against the mob and doesn't betray his own eyesight and own common sense and actually speaks out and in a place where it's uncomfortable to speak out. That is absolutely imperative even a small percentage of people did that on a large enough scale we could turn this problem around very quickly. But you know without that you forget it this is in in fifty years most of this will be gone if not just irreversibly changed for the worst and so that's really all I can. Leave the viewer with and I certainly hope that anybody who has heard this message and what we've discussed will speak out do something.

[01:29:45] Anthony Rubin: To help turn the ship around

[01:29:48] Dr. Bret Weinstein: beautifully said so Anthony Rubin people should check out your. Documentaries specially your most recent work which they can find at muckraker.com. They can also find it I suggest that they follow you on X your handle is muckraker.

[01:30:09] Anthony Rubin: @realmuckraker on all social media platforms

[01:30:12] Dr. Bret Weinstein: @realmuckraker. Anyway it's it's beautifully done and courageously done and you won't regret watching it I mean you may not feel so great about the world but anyway it's a beautiful piece of work and and I really appreciate you. Having done it so anyway thank you for coming on DarkHorse and good luck with all your your future endeavors. Thank you so much thanks for watching everybody.

Credits

Music: "Marble Machine" by Wintergatan. This track can be downloaded for free at wintergatan.net. A free license to use this track in your video can be downloaded at wintergatan.net.

Jennifer Donogh